Todd Cordell: Losing streak extends to four as Flames get blanked by Coyotes

Need a big bounce back game against Vegas. Should be a good one! I imagine Lazar gets his shot it Benny isn’t good to go. GFG

Wish I could be as optimistic as you guys. The Vegas game was a step forward but that Arizona game was atrocious.

Their defence and goaltending is looking strong which is good but the offence looks helpless right now outside the 4th line. Top-6 needs a big shakeup. Split Johnny and Monny and make completely new lines.

Feels like forever ago we were putting up 3 shorties and blowing out teams no matter their skill level.

Edit: How fitting that the Stone addition had made Vegas go on a run and Zucker pots a hatty against the best team in the league.

Flames fans - with a couple of weeks' of hindsight - would you be more willing now to give up a top prospect like Valimaki and/or Dube if it meant landing Stone in a deadline trade? My understanding is Treliving wasn't willing to include the prospects necessary for a deal.

Not trying to troll. I am curious if fans are willing to sacrifice some of the future to try and make a run at the Cup now.

Vegas is unbeaten with Stone and he hasn't been on the ice for a single goal against since joining them. Their possession numbers have sky rocketed across the board as well with the balance he brings to their lineup.

I am sure Calgary would have seen similar results. Would it have been worth losing one or two of your top prospects?

Flames fans - with a couple of weeks' of hindsight - would you be more willing now to give up a top prospect like Valimaki and/or Dube if it meant landing Stone in a deadline trade? My understanding is Treliving wasn't willing to include the prospects necessary for a deal.

Not trying to troll. I am curious if fans are willing to sacrifice some of the future to try and make a run at the Cup now.

Vegas is unbeaten with Stone and he hasn't been on the ice for a single goal against since joining them. Their possession numbers have sky rocketed across the board as well with the balance he brings to their lineup.

I am sure Calgary would have seen similar results. Would it have been worth losing one or two of your top prospects?
- punchanello77

No, definitely not. Vali is more important to our future than Stone. Does really suck they didn't value Kylington as much cause I would've done that plus a 1st and B prospect for sure.

Flames fans - with a couple of weeks' of hindsight - would you be more willing now to give up a top prospect like Valimaki and/or Dube if it meant landing Stone in a deadline trade? My understanding is Treliving wasn't willing to include the prospects necessary for a deal.

Not trying to troll. I am curious if fans are willing to sacrifice some of the future to try and make a run at the Cup now.

Vegas is unbeaten with Stone and he hasn't been on the ice for a single goal against since joining them. Their possession numbers have sky rocketed across the board as well with the balance he brings to their lineup.

I am sure Calgary would have seen similar results. Would it have been worth losing one or two of your top prospects?
- punchanello77

I'm fine with them taking a hard stance against moving Valimaki, even though Stone would have been the perfect fit.

I am curious what the deal was for Zucker that fell apart, that may have been the right move in hindsight.

So do we end up resigning Fantenberg? He’d be a great #7 and solid insurance with the expansion draft looming.

Flames fans - with a couple of weeks' of hindsight - would you be more willing now to give up a top prospect like Valimaki and/or Dube if it meant landing Stone in a deadline trade? My understanding is Treliving wasn't willing to include the prospects necessary for a deal.

Not trying to troll. I am curious if fans are willing to sacrifice some of the future to try and make a run at the Cup now.

Vegas is unbeaten with Stone and he hasn't been on the ice for a single goal against since joining them. Their possession numbers have sky rocketed across the board as well with the balance he brings to their lineup.

I am sure Calgary would have seen similar results. Would it have been worth losing one or two of your top prospects?
- punchanello77

I would still not have traded Valimäki. Dube possibly. I would have moved Kylington as I still believe we will have to move him eventually before the expansion draft. And i’d much rather move him to an eastern conference team then a western one. I can still see us going after Zucker in the summer.

Flames fans - with a couple of weeks' of hindsight - would you be more willing now to give up a top prospect like Valimaki and/or Dube if it meant landing Stone in a deadline trade? My understanding is Treliving wasn't willing to include the prospects necessary for a deal.

Not trying to troll. I am curious if fans are willing to sacrifice some of the future to try and make a run at the Cup now.

Vegas is unbeaten with Stone and he hasn't been on the ice for a single goal against since joining them. Their possession numbers have sky rocketed across the board as well with the balance he brings to their lineup.

I am sure Calgary would have seen similar results. Would it have been worth losing one or two of your top prospects?
- punchanello77

No!
I think Tre has done a great job assembling a competitive roster but I still think we are not serious contenders, yet! Can we go on a long playoff run? Sure but I think we are still a few tweaks and playoff experience away from being considered (truly) elite.

Our window is just opening compared to a team like San Jose who are all in this year. To leverage that future even for a guy like Stone would have been (Sutteresque) short sighted.

So do we end up resigning Fantenberg? He’d be a great #7 and solid insurance with the expansion draft looming.
- TandA4Flames

I think that will be dependent on (cost) but more so, do we move Brodie/Stone, et al?

I'm fine with them taking a hard stance against moving Valimaki, even though Stone would have been the perfect fit.

I am curious what the deal was for Zucker that fell apart, that may have been the right move in hindsight.
- Fotiu666

Rumour was Frolik and a high pick which we could assume was our 1st

I think that will be dependent on (cost) but more so, do we move Brodie/Stone, et al?
- geta02it

We should consider moving Brodie this summer as I think Ras is ready to be Gio’s next sidekick. Keep Stone as the 3rd right shot. Hamonic and Hanafin remains pair.
Gio- Andersson
Hanafin- Hamonic
Valimaki- Stone
Prout- Fantenberg/Kylington
Consider using Kyl as a way of getting another scorer or solid #1 G. Look for a 1st + in a Brodie trade to recoup the one we use (hopefully to get Zucker).

I'm fine with them taking a hard stance against moving Valimaki, even though Stone would have been the perfect fit.

I am curious what the deal was for Zucker that fell apart, that may have been the right move in hindsight.
- Fotiu666

Welcome back stranger...

Flames fans - with a couple of weeks' of hindsight - would you be more willing now to give up a top prospect like Valimaki and/or Dube if it meant landing Stone in a deadline trade? My understanding is Treliving wasn't willing to include the prospects necessary for a deal.

Not trying to troll. I am curious if fans are willing to sacrifice some of the future to try and make a run at the Cup now.

Vegas is unbeaten with Stone and he hasn't been on the ice for a single goal against since joining them. Their possession numbers have sky rocketed across the board as well with the balance he brings to their lineup.

I am sure Calgary would have seen similar results. Would it have been worth losing one or two of your top prospects?
- punchanello77

I dont think McStone suddenly became generational. This was his best season & always beware of guys playing for new contracts wanting big $$$. Stone is a mid twenties goal scorer & mid 60 point player. Nothing wrong with that & would have loved him as a rental. At 9.5 mill, hell no!! The cost to Vegas is a pretty big future cornerstone on their blue line & now that they are at $82 mill cap going into next year, not sure how McPhee re-signs Karlsson. They will be very vulnerable to a 6.0 mill offer sheet which I believe is only a 2nd round pick if they dont match.

Our core is very young & signed for several years so no need to go all in. No one thought this team would be where it's at at the start of the season. We still have a few pieces to add yet.

We should consider moving Brodie this summer as I think Ras is ready to be Gio’s next sidekick. Keep Stone as the 3rd right shot. Hamonic and Hanafin remains pair.
Gio- Andersson
Hanafin- Hamonic
Valimaki- Stone
Prout- Fantenberg/Kylington
Consider using Kyl as a way of getting another scorer or solid #1 G. Look for a 1st + in a Brodie trade to recoup the one we use (hopefully to get Zucker).
- TandA4Flames

Agreed, think Tre finds a suitor for him this summer. On the fence of whether or not I want a roster player back or not, as we are going to have expansion decisions to make in the next couple of years. Flames already have a really tough decision based on today's roster on whether they'd expose a young d or a really good young forward...

Protecting 7 forwards means exposing one of Hanifin, Valimaki or Andersson (Gio NTC)

Protecting 4 D means exposing one of Mony/Johnny/Chucky/Lindy (Backs NTC) who are more likely targets than Neal etc...

The chess matches around expansion are gonna be interesting for the Flames this time around. No Engellund's to let go for free...

Wish I could be as optimistic as you guys. The Vegas game was a step forward but that Arizona game was atrocious.

Their defence and goaltending is looking strong which is good but the offence looks helpless right now outside the 4th line. Top-6 needs a big shakeup. Split Johnny and Monny and make completely new lines.

Feels like forever ago we were putting up 3 shorties and blowing out teams no matter their skill level.

Edit: How fitting that the Stone addition had made Vegas go on a run and Zucker pots a hatty against the best team in the league.
- LittleBroDougie

Meh! I think we need to stop killing ourselves for that 1st spot in the Pacific & embrace the series we will have with Vegas. We have 14 games left & Peters needs to get Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Gio, Hamonic, Lindholm, Backlund rested & any minor injuries they are playing through healed up for at least 4 -5 of the next 14 games each. Bring up Reichel & Lazar, Stone & Valamaki, even Dube & get a couple of these guys in games. Let them play against the dirty & desperate teams & get their noses in it & possibly bloodied a bit. Come playoff time, we will need everyone ready to go & battle for every inch of ice.

Agreed, think Tre finds a suitor for him this summer. On the fence of whether or not I want a roster player back or not, as we are going to have expansion decisions to make in the next couple of years. Flames already have a really tough decision based on today's roster on whether they'd expose a young d or a really good young forward...

Protecting 7 forwards means exposing one of Hanifin, Valimaki or Andersson (Gio NTC)

Protecting 4 D means exposing one of Mony/Johnny/Chucky/Lindy (Backs NTC) who are more likely targets than Neal etc...

The chess matches around expansion are gonna be interesting for the Flames this time around. No Engellund's to let go for free...
- rmull905

Only No Move clauses force a team to protect them in the expansion draft.

Meh! I think we need to stop killing ourselves for that 1st spot in the Pacific & embrace the series we will have with Vegas. We have 14 games left & Peters needs to get Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Gio, Hamonic, Lindholm, Backlund rested & any minor injuries they are playing through healed up for at least 4 -5 of the next 14 games each. Bring up Reichel & Lazar, Stone & Valamaki, even Dube & get a couple of these guys in games. Let them play against the dirty & desperate teams & get their noses in it & possibly bloodied a bit. Come playoff time, we will need everyone ready to go & battle for every inch of ice.
- Kevin R

I disagree, the Flames need to win the Pacific and avoid Vegas in the first round, you want to have home ice advantage. If the Flames are out of first with no chance of winning the Pacific the last 3-4 games then sure rest players.

Mark Stone contract:
2019/20: $9M SB + $3M salary
2020/21: $7M SB + $1M salary
2021/22: $5M SB + $7M salary
2022/23: $7M SB + $1M salary
2023/24: $5M SB + $6M salary
2024/25: $5M SB + $6M salary
2025/26: $5M SB + $3M salary
2026/27: $5M SB + $1M salary
$48M in SB + $28M in salary


Someone clear up how this signing bonus works against a teams cap? Vegas is heading into a cap mess already.

I disagree, the Flames need to win the Pacific and avoid Vegas in the first round, you want to have home ice advantage. If the Flames are out of first with no chance of winning the Pacific the last 3-4 games then sure rest players.
- FlamesFan1230

Wrong, we have actually been a pretty decent road team. Also we should be able to finish 2nd, which allows us home ice in the first round & San Jose would still have to win or else we probably will have home ice in the 2nd round as well.

2 schools of thought here. 1. Vegas would provide a physical series so I’d rather see them and San Jose beat on each other so we theoretically have a wounded team in the 2nd round and we may be healthier. 2. For years the Caps burned a lot of energy pushing for the presidents trophy and little left in the tank for a long PO run. It wasn’t until they didn’t go for the PT that they won the cup. Same idea with the Flames Trying to push for the WC title.
Go in rested and focused on your 1st round opponent or push to try and set the table for your opponents? I’m not sure where I stand.

Wrong, we have actually been a pretty decent road team. Also we should be able to finish 2nd, which allows us home ice in the first round & San Jose would still have to win or else we probably will have home ice in the 2nd round as well.
- Kevin R

Wrong Kevin R, playoffs are completely different and I rather have home ice advantage guaranteed at least for the first two rounds. The Flames haven't won a game in Vegas period and haven't won in San Jose this year. You're logic is stupid. More then likely if the Flames win the Pacific they win the west. I think anyone other then you will agree its better to have home ice advantage in a series.

Mark Stone contract:
2019/20: $9M SB + $3M salary
2020/21: $7M SB + $1M salary
2021/22: $5M SB + $7M salary
2022/23: $7M SB + $1M salary
2023/24: $5M SB + $6M salary
2024/25: $5M SB + $6M salary
2025/26: $5M SB + $3M salary
2026/27: $5M SB + $1M salary
$48M in SB + $28M in salary


Someone clear up how this signing bonus works against a teams cap? Vegas is heading into a cap mess already.
- jessehub

It's 9.5m across the board until it's done. Full NMC until 2027.

Mark Stone contract:
2019/20: $9M SB + $3M salary
2020/21: $7M SB + $1M salary
2021/22: $5M SB + $7M salary
2022/23: $7M SB + $1M salary
2023/24: $5M SB + $6M salary
2024/25: $5M SB + $6M salary
2025/26: $5M SB + $3M salary
2026/27: $5M SB + $1M salary
$48M in SB + $28M in salary


Someone clear up how this signing bonus works against a teams cap? Vegas is heading into a cap mess already.
- jessehub

This is just a complete guess, but I assume it doesn't matter at all to the cap. Dollars are dollars. I think it just means he'll get the complete amount of the signing bonus on whatever day the year starts for them, and the salary is divided up into however many pay periods NHL players have.

I remember Buffalo had to trade O'Reilly before a certain date or they would have been on the hook for pretty much all the money he was going to be paid this year.

This is just a complete guess, but I assume it doesn't matter at all to the cap. Dollars are dollars. I think it just means he'll get the complete amount of the signing bonus on whatever day the year starts for them, and the salary is divided up into however many pay periods NHL players have.

I remember Buffalo had to trade O'Reilly before a certain date or they would have been on the hook for pretty much all the money he was going to be paid this year.
- Hunkulese

Gotcha. So it all counts against the cap still. I don’t really get the benefit of it. I’ll do some more digging.

Thanks Hunk